[00:00:00] Adam Walker: From Susan G Komen, this is Real Pink, A podcast exploring real stories, struggles, and triumphs related to breast cancer. We’re taking the conversation from the doctor’s office to your living room.
[00:00:17] During National Breast Cancer Awareness Month, breast cancer gets more attention, and that’s a great thing for fundraising awareness and early detection. However, for those living with metastatic breast cancer, this month can be hard and sometimes feel triggering and isolating. The widespread focus is often on screenings and celebrating survivors living a life free from cancer, which is not the reality for those with metastatic disease. Today on MBC Awareness Day, we’re excited to welcome Ashley Fernandez back to the show to talk about her lived experiences,
[00:00:53] how she seeks support and what she wants people to know about living with metastatic breast cancer. Ashley, welcome back to the show.
[00:01:00] Ashley Fernandez: Hi Adam, and thank you so much for having me back on the podcast.
[00:01:04] Adam Walker: Well, it’s so nice to see you and I do I feel like I need to mention you are joining us during treatment in a
[00:01:13] Hospital room at this moment, correct?
[00:01:16] Ashley Fernandez: Yes. I’m back at OSU getting treatment. I was supposed to have treatment last week. However, my white blood counts were really low, so, you know, we just go with the flows.
[00:01:25] Adam Walker: Well, it’s not, you are a champion. I mean I app it’s hard to do anything in a hospital room.
[00:01:31] Much less an interview. So I really, I really do appreciate you taking the time with us today. So it’s been a few years since we’ve had you on the show, so I guess my first question is like how are you doing? What’s kind of the what’s going on with you?
[00:01:45] Ashley Fernandez: Yeah, so it has been a few years, so as you know, I’ve been living with MBC for a little over seven and a half years now.
[00:01:52] I’m doing pretty well right now. Everything’s stable and even better than stable, I would say. I am doing good with my chemotherapy and I just started treatment at the Ohio State University, and I’m loving the care I’m receiving.
[00:02:05] Adam Walker: Okay. That’s, wait. You look great. I mean we’re on video here.
[00:02:09] Thank you. You look, you’re very cheery and you know, like Yeah. Big smile and, you know, so so I’m so glad to get a good look at you.
[00:02:16] Ashley Fernandez: Yeah. Adam, I’m so blessed in this life, you know? Yeah. Like I have so many opportunities and also I’m really excited for this phone call because we get to educate and share and hopefully inspire or encourage somebody that’s going through something difficult that if I can do it, they can do.
[00:02:31] Adam Walker: I think you can inspire that is, there is no doubt in my mind that you have that ability to do so. I can see it on you right now. So so, so like, walk us through like what’s unique about living with MBC That someone with an early stage diagnosis might not experience.
[00:02:49] Ashley Fernandez: Yeah, I think living with MBC is a very complex disease.
[00:02:53] As you know, it’s a terminal diagnosis, but like how you choose to live with it is up to you. I personally choose to be terminally optimistic, so I like to look on the positive side, but not too positive to where it’s like toxic positivity, right? Like I give myself space to feel the hard things and validate every feeling that I’m feeling.
[00:03:11] And then, then I can get towards that hope. But there’s hills and valleys through this disease, and I like to call it a rollercoaster ride. So one thing about living with MBC that I think is really hard is the unknown, like the fear of what’s next, what’s happening, and what else we can be getting into. So it’s a constant, you’re always battling your mind, right?
[00:03:32] Like, Hey, yes, I can do this, but do I have the energy for it? Am I going to feel well enough with treatment? What am I looking for? And you can’t really plan for any of the above. So it’s really just the unknown.
[00:03:43] It’s complex.
[00:03:45] Adam Walker: Yeah. Yeah. That sounds complex. And I, you know, as I alluded to in the intro.
[00:03:52] I think October is kind of a complex month too. I mean it’s breast cancer awareness. There’s pink ribbons everywhere. How do you feel as someone living with MBC during the month of October? Is it difficult? Is it difficult for your family? Kind of walk me through that.
[00:04:08] Ashley Fernandez: So I think I’ve been on this journey for a little bit longer.
[00:04:12] So in the beginning it used to make me sick. I’m not going to lie to you. Like I’d see pink and pink’s my favorite color. And I’d be like, Ugh, why? Why are we celebrating this? Right? Yeah. But I think like as I’ve gotten better and better, I’ve learned like what triggers me and what doesn’t and how do I feel like, yeah, I’m really glad that there’s pink and there’s awareness and there’s all these things, but really what we need more than anything is action.
[00:04:36] Like more funding.
[00:04:38] Adam Walker: Yeah.
[00:04:40] Ashley Fernandez: More cures, more research like, right. We need action. So awareness only gets us so far. So I’m really thankful that you got me on this podcast today to talk about some of those things and how we can make that tangibly together.
[00:04:52] Adam Walker: I mean, that’s why we do what we do.
[00:04:54] We’re trying to bring awareness. We’re trying to bring empathy. We’re trying to, yes. To learn and grow. You know, together. So.
[00:05:01] Ashley Fernandez: Yeah, exactly. So I think in the month of October it’s really difficult because you do see a lot of pink and you do see a lot of people celebrating cancer free.
[00:05:08] And for me, I’m excited for those people personally. Like I’m so glad they got there. Right. But it’s also difficult because some of us will never get there. 116 people die a day from MBC. So while it’s something to celebrate, it’s also something that’s still effectively killing people, right? Like it’s killing people.
[00:05:28] And that’s why we need more action. We need funding, we need researchers, we need donations. Like the more and more like the treatment that I’m on right now and I’m currently receiving, wasn’t even approved by the FDA until a year ago. So that’s why research is so important. Like it’s keeping my life going and it’s keeping my fellow MBCers going.
[00:05:47] And if we could really cure stage four, we wouldn’t even be having cancer.
[00:05:51] Adam Walker: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. So, so during, you know, during a month like this, I mean how do you care for yourself? How do you seek support? How do you know, if you feel triggered by pink washing.
[00:06:03] Ashley Fernandez: So pink washing does kind of like today, actually yesterday I was driving my daughter and there was a pink trash can.
[00:06:09] Like why do we have a pink trash can?
[00:06:11] But I think it’s to give awareness and for some people that works, right? Yeah. Like I’m not here to knock anybody.
[00:06:18] Adam Walker: Right.
[00:06:18] Ashley Fernandez: But let’s just make sure you know where your dollars are going. There’s so many benefits and there’s so many things, and even Komen has really stepped it up with the metastatic breast cancer community.
[00:06:27] Yeah. We have so many resources and so many support systems now that like. I’ve heard feedback from multiple people living with MBC and they have really took action and feedback and really ran with it. So I feel like I feel seen in the Komen world too.
[00:06:43] Adam Walker: Yeah.
[00:06:43] Ashley Fernandez: So I wouldn’t say that’s pink washing per se, but I would say that sometimes like there’s, if you go to the store right now, you can see a pink ribbon on everything.
[00:06:55] Adam Walker: Yeah.
[00:06:56] Ashley Fernandez: How much of that’s really going to funding and how much of that’s helping my life in the future?
[00:07:01] Adam Walker: Right. Yeah. I mean, and to your point, like there’s there, there’s different opportunities to give and different different focuses for those, for that giving and be aware, I guess, be aware of that, right?
[00:07:13] Ashley Fernandez: Yeah. I guess it’s just overwhelming sometimes just to see so many paint ribbons and then you’re like, okay, great. Let’s make some changes. Let’s use those pink ribbons and that’s why I think it’s so important that you do invite people living with metastatic disease. So thank you for extending the invite.
[00:07:29] Yeah. Because it’s so important. And you said for self care, like, I like to reach out to loved ones today. I actually have a really good friend sitting here in chemo with me, and I’m thankful for that. I joined support groups and I lead support groups and communities is everything. Especially when you find people going through a like or a similar process as you, right.
[00:07:47] You don’t feel so alone in this world. Yeah. I like to engage in relaxing activities, of course, which consists of me and Hallmark Channel right now in the fall.
[00:07:57] Adam Walker: Oh man. You’re binging the Hallmark movies. Okay, thank you. Okay, I
[00:08:02] see you. I see you.
[00:08:03] Ashley Fernandez: Yes. Look at the smile. Yes, I do. Because you know why every Hallmark movie ends in a happy ending.
[00:08:09] It does. Yeah. And I like that predictability.
[00:08:11] Adam Walker: Yeah.
[00:08:11] Ashley Fernandez: Like sometimes you don’t get that in the life and in the world right now. Yeah. And I know that when me and my couch get together, I’m going to do amazing.
[00:08:19] Adam Walker: All right, so with this episode falling on MBC Awareness Day, it gives a great opportunity to sort of educate our audiences about MBC.
[00:08:28] So what do you want people to know about your experience living with metastatic breast cancer?
[00:08:35] Ashley Fernandez: Okay. I want people to know that I’m still actively living and living joyfully out loud, and that just because we’re sick doesn’t mean our life’s end. I think it’s so important to remember that like we still have lives outside of these chemo chairs and we’re trying to do everything in our powers to be present.
[00:08:53] I also want people to remember that MBC is a terminal diagnosis. Like some people like to call it a chronic condition and that’s not true, because if it’s chronic, so many people wouldn’t be dying every day.
[00:09:02] Adam Walker: Yeah. 116 to be exact.
[00:09:08] Ashley Fernandez: Research is funding. Research funding is crucial for sure. Like I told you, like unlike early stage breast cancer, MBC requires ongoing treatment and management.
[00:09:20] So like, we’re only as good until our treatment runs out. Thankfully, like, I’ve had awesome responses to my treatment, but really I’m already on my third line of care. And my hope is that by the time this one decides to stop working, we have something else on the market that I could go to. Right? Like there’s brilliant minds at work all the time and they need funds.
[00:09:41] Adam Walker: Yeah, that’s right.
[00:09:42] Ashley Fernandez: So that’s the only way we’re going to get more care is so if you’re listening and you have the means, please support research.
[00:09:48] Adam Walker: Love that.
[00:09:49] Ashley Fernandez: So crucial. And then support. Support is so vital. I think just because we make it look easy, like we still need that support. Yeah. Emotional support from loved ones, support groups.
[00:10:01] Also just showing up sometimes, like there’s nothing anybody can do, but it’s so important for somebody to just be with you.
[00:10:08] Adam Walker: Yeah.
[00:10:08] Ashley Fernandez: People are always asking like, how can we support you? Like, really, there’s not much you can do, but showing up speaks volumes. Yep. And just checking in like a text. Just letting people know that they’re not forgotten and they’re there.
[00:10:20] But most importantly, like my friends are dying every day, and it’s important for us to find a cure. It’s important for us to talk about our stories. It’s important for people to know that we are living the best that we can.
[00:10:33] Yeah. And am I allowed to talk about God?
[00:10:37] Adam Walker: Sure. It’s your opinion, your, it’s your interview.
[00:10:41] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:42] Ashley Fernandez: Well, and then I just want to say that for me, God is like my rock. And that’s really how I stay so joyful because once I was able to surrender and be like, okay, all of this is outta my hands, I came over with like peace beyond understanding. because I know that I’m going to be killed either on heaven’s side or this side.
[00:10:58] It’s going to happen. But like the Lord is my anchor. And if you don’t have faith or something that you believe in, I feel like maybe you can explore that because it’s been life changing for me. Yeah. And my family, you know, my daughter was three when I was diagnosed and she’s about to be 11 in November. Wow.
[00:11:18] So I know. So things that we don’t take for granted.
[00:11:22] Adam Walker: Yeah. So there’s two things you said that I wanted to, yeah. I wanted to follow up on for a second. One is, you want people to know that you’re still living. And I think what I’m hearing you say is you don’t want people, you don’t want to be defined by your illness.
[00:11:35] You want to be defined by who you are, right?
[00:11:37] Ashley Fernandez: Yes. I think that’s so important. I think so many people try to put us in boxes, right? Like, oh, you’re a cancer patient, you can’t do this, you can’t do that. Like, how do you know what I’m capable of?
[00:11:45] Adam Walker: Right? Yeah.
[00:11:46] Ashley Fernandez: Look if I do this chemotherapy and I’ve been getting chemo for like almost the last eight years, imagine what else is in store.
[00:11:53] Imagine what else I can do. That’s right. Yeah. But not just that, this is just like barely a chapter of my whole life story.
[00:12:00] Adam Walker: Yeah.
[00:12:00] Ashley Fernandez: Like this is just the cancer chapter. Yeah. It takes up a lot of appointments and a lot of different things, but I don’t sit around and like, Ooh, what am I going to do today with cancer?
[00:12:10] No. It’s like, Hey, what does my kid have today? What am I going to do today? What going to do to look forward to? Yeah. What am I going to do today and how am I going to set the world and the power of now, like where my feet are right now. I’m talking to you. I’m seeing one of my besties across from me. I see the things.
[00:12:25] I mean, yes, I see my treatment coming in. Me too. And you can see my port here, but like my life doesn’t revolve around cancer. That’s right. Does it take up a lot of time? Yes.
[00:12:33] Adam Walker: Yeah.
[00:12:34] Ashley Fernandez: But it’s not the only part of me.
[00:12:36] Adam Walker: That’s right.
[00:12:36] Ashley Fernandez: So I just want people to remember that like you’re not a statistic, you’re statistic of one and it’s yours and the way you decide to do this journey of cancer or metastatic breast cancer, whatever you want to call this like.
[00:12:49] It’s just a small inch. Like it doesn’t erase everything who you are or what you are. Like, you get to reinvent that every day if you wanted to.
[00:12:58] Adam Walker: Yeah. The other thing I wanted to kind of explore a little bit more, it’s actually related Yes. To kind of, to my next question. You mentioned the power
[00:13:08] of showing up the power of sending a text message. I was just thinking of you like, you just, you know, like Yes. Talk a little bit more about that. Because I wanted to ask how people can best support you, and I think that probably is the answer but give us more Yeah. Detail about that.
[00:13:23] Ashley Fernandez: So when interacting with somebody that’s living with breast cancer or metastatic breast cancer, you know, there’s a lot of feelings.
[00:13:28] Like I told you earlier, it’s an emotional rollercoaster, but just being active, an active listener and just being a friend or like my mom’s awesome. My husband’s in the military. He was gone last week. My mom flew in and she was just here with me. I didn’t end up having chemo or anything, but she was here and she showed up.
[00:13:46] Everybody doesn’t have that kind of support, and that’s okay, but we have friends and we have people that don’t know how to support us. So if we’re honest and vulnerable and just say, Hey, you know what, sometimes I can just use a friend to sit with me or check with me. Like having somebody next to you, even when there’s nothing to be said, says so much because you could just sit on my couch and we watch Hallmark together. Yeah. My friend that’s here, I had chemo last week, well last month or something, and I just went to her couch and I used to fall asleep on her, but she used to let me get out of my space and I got to go to her house and I would just sleep on her couch.
[00:14:20] But I felt good because I was outta my space and she was able to give me that level of support and open up her home even though she knew I was going to fall asleep.
[00:14:28] Adam Walker: Yeah. Yeah, it’s beautiful. I love that.
[00:14:30] Ashley Fernandez: Yeah. But I also think it’s important to like listen actively, like we go through so many feelings, so.
[00:14:37] If you’re going to put yourself in that opportunity to support somebody, like please don’t try to solve all the problems. Right. Yeah. I think it’s really helpful. Something that my husband and I do is like, he asks like, is this event session or do you need some advice? Yeah.
[00:14:51] Adam Walker: Are we, are we problem solving or are we empathizing?
[00:14:54] Like those are different. Which one are we doing right now? Yeah.
[00:14:57] Ashley Fernandez: That has been so good for our marriage. Not just our marriage, but also for conversations. Right. Sometimes I just want to tell him like, I’m feeling like this and this is poopy and this is happening too, right? Yeah. And he’s like, do you want me to fix it or am I just listening?
[00:15:08] Please just listen. Like, yeah, you don’t need Mr. Fix it. But sometimes if you do that and you’re like, Hey, actually I do need a little bit more support and let’s brainstorm some alternatives. Right. It works really well.
[00:15:18] Adam Walker: Right.
[00:15:19] Ashley Fernandez: But then be supportive like. Today Carlos has class so my friend Heather.
[00:15:26] Oh, is it okay that I say your name? It’s okay. I’m going to say it. My friend Heather was like, Hey, I got you and I can come with you to Columbus. The drive’s about an hour and 20 minutes. It’s about an hour and 20 minutes drive, and she was able to just be here with us. Like, you know, like that’s huge.
[00:15:44] And I also like assumptions aren’t helpful. Just because you saw somebody on TV puking all the time doesn’t mean that we’re going to be puking all the time. Right. So understand that each person’s experience is completely different. Right. And allow them to tell you what’s going on instead of you just jumping in has been really helpful for me.
[00:16:07] Adam Walker: Yeah, that’s a really good learning, right? The assumptions are not helpful. Just ask. Yeah. Be curious, right? Yeah. Thoughtful. Right.
[00:16:14] Ashley Fernandez: And like you asked me, some people don’t have problem with pink, like I love pink, right? So that’s why I was like, it’s important to know exactly who you’re talking to and you should know your loved one enough to know like, is this empathy support or is she really upset?
[00:16:29] And if you’re a safe enough person, I can tell you exactly how I feel. Right, right, right. So just the right questions.
[00:16:34] Adam Walker: Are there things that organizations like Komen or healthcare systems can do to provide better support for the MBC community?
[00:16:45] Ashley Fernandez: Yeah. I actually am really proud. Like I said earlier, Komen has really stepped it up in my eight year journey with this like, yeah.
[00:16:55] They provide resources and education. They always give us different treatment options. There’s classes and there’s opportunities for us to be seen in like the sea of pink.
[00:17:05] Like it’s pretty cool. Okay. Also just allocating funds to MBC research. Komens already doing that, but I think it’s important for people to do that.
[00:17:14] because if we effectively get more research options and more trials and more things going, imagine how many of us will be here to continue these conversations. Yeah. Or like I’m living proof that research works. Right. I’m only at seven and a half years, I’ve met somebody that’s been in treatment living with MBC for 24 years.
[00:17:33] So if it could work for her, that gives me hope. If it can work for her, why can’t it work for me? And like I hold onto that the back of my mind as well. And then just promoting awareness and understanding. I think a lot of people in early stage don’t even know that they can become metastatic.
[00:17:51] And then like. It’s one in three, like 30% of early stages will become like me. But when I go to a room and they don’t know that I have stage four, because you know, you can’t really tell.
[00:18:03] Adam Walker: Yeah.
[00:18:03] Ashley Fernandez: And when you say that you’re the elephant in the room, like you’re what people don’t want to become, but I’m not scary.
[00:18:09] Adam Walker: Right. Yeah.
[00:18:11] Ashley Fernandez: I was like, I’m not scary. So I think just creating those safe spaces for stage four patients to have their own support groups is really important as well. Because I’m all about an all over support group, but you should see something, the looks I get. And in the beginning I used to go home crying.
[00:18:25] Adam Walker: Yeah.
[00:18:26] Ashley Fernandez: Like I would go home crying because nobody wanted to be my friend and nobody wanted to share what they had because I had stage four and they were scared that I was going to die, or they don’t want, they don’t want to look like me. When in reality the only difference was luck. Like, I just got it before you, there’s a possibility that it can come back for you.
[00:18:43] So I think education’s really important. A lot of organizations don’t really share the statistics of like what early stages can become.
[00:18:51] Adam Walker: Yeah, that’s right.
[00:18:52] Ashley Fernandez: And then I hope that if they see me, they see that I’m living out loud.
[00:18:55] Adam Walker: You are. That’s for sure. That I think that comes through very clearly.
[00:19:01] And I like that. I like that about you. I love that. Yeah. That’s great. Well, I, so, so, Ashley, this, you know I really appreciate you. Diving deep. I appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing and, but also, you know, being your normal upbeat self, living your life. Right. I love that. Do you have any final advice that you’d like to share with our listeners?
[00:19:22] Ashley Fernandez: I do. I would like everybody to know that, like those of us living with MBC, it’s really important to prioritize self-care. To seek support, to stay informed about new treatment options and resources, because there’s a lot out there for us. And by working together, we can not only like support and spread awareness about metastatic breast cancer and what it’s like to be living out loud, but we can also help those that are about to be impacted and affected and ultimately,
[00:19:48] when we use our voices together for research, we can fund better treatments and find a cure for breast cancer. because like I said before, if we cure stage four, like all of us are going to be well, so why are we the ones getting the least amount of funding? I just don’t understand it. But most, most importantly, I want whoever’s listening to this to remember that they’re more than this diagnosis, and that if you don’t like who you are or what you’re doing right now, you can wake up tomorrow and be a whole different person because you have the power to choose how you want to spend your days.
[00:20:20] So I hope you’re choosing Well.
[00:20:22] Adam Walker: That is a very powerful way to end this episode. So, Ashley I’ll stop there. Thank you so much for being on the show today. I really appreciate everything you brought to the table. It’s amazing. You’re amazing.
[00:20:33] Ashley Fernandez: Thank you. Thank you Adam. And thank you for working with all the hiccups with treatment and everything else lining.
[00:20:38] I appreciate you and I’m so thankful that you gave me this opportunity to share today.
[00:20:42] Adam Walker: Yeah. Thank you for joining from treatment. I mean that, that might be a first for this show. I, so I do appreciate it. I think so really do.
[00:20:53] Thanks for listening to Real Pink, a weekly podcast by Susan G Komen. For more episodes, visit real pink.Komen.org. And for more on breast cancer, visit Komen.org. Make sure to check out at Susan G Komen on social media. I’m your host, Adam. You can find me on Twitter at AJ Walker or on my blog adam j walker.com.