[00:00:00] Adam Walker: From Susan G Komen, this is Real Pink, A podcast exploring real stories, struggles, and triumphs related to breast cancer. We’re taking the conversation from the doctor’s office to your living room.
[00:00:17] We have a very special guest on the show today. We are thrilled to be joined by the co-founder of the Home Edit. She’s an Emmy nominated New York Times bestselling author, a mom, a wife, and a breast cancer survivor. The amazing Clea Shearer. Clea is here to talk about her shocking breast cancer diagnosis at the age of 40.
[00:00:38] The ongoing reconstruction complications that she had to endure over the past three years, and the unexpected lessons that have come with all of it. Clea’s new book is aptly called Cancer is Complicated, and she’s here to tell us all about how true that statement really is. Clea, welcome to the show.
[00:00:55] Clea Shearer: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:00:58] Adam Walker: Well, I’m really glad to get a chance to chat with you and to also add another book to my to read list, so that’s always an exciting time. So understand that self-advocacy played a large role in your breast cancer diagnosis. So to start, can you take us through what that journey was like and what that diagnosis was like in the beginning?
[00:01:18] Clea Shearer: Sure. I was in New York City about to go on the Today Show and was just in the shower thinking about how amazing this year is going to be 2022 because we had just sold our company to Reese Witherspoon few days before, literally February 20. February 18th, and this was February 22nd. And we were going on the Today Show to announce all these exciting things.
[00:01:47] And in the shower I felt a lump. And I, it’s like, it was so undeniable what it be, I tried to, you know, think like, well maybe it could be a cyst, maybe it could be, but it’s just in my gut at that moment I was like, this is when they, when people talk about finding lumps. This is what they’re talking about.
[00:02:12] So I, I called my gynecologist’s office and said the very, very scary words out loud. I think I found a lump and I said, I need a mammogram like right away. And they were so unbelievably dismissive of my needs. This was February and she’s like, I’m sorry, we’re all booked. And she’s like, we’re booked through April and the May books actually aren’t even open yet, so you’re just going to keep having to try back.
[00:02:44] Like, couldn’t even put me in April. Like it was just, or in May it was outrageous. And I was freaked out, of course, and she’s no longer my gynecologist. But, so I called my primary care doctor who was excellent. And also a physician within Vanderbilt where I received care. So she immediately jumped on it, scheduled ultrasound a mammogram.
[00:03:14] And I was traveling out of town. So as soon as I got back, you know, I was, I would be ready to go. So March 8th, i I go into the breast center at Vanderbilt and I get the mammogram and I’m like, looking for tea leaves, like anything that I’m like, you know does the technician look nervous or couldn’t tell anything?
[00:03:38] Then I went into the ultrasound and it’s never a good sign when like other radiologists show up to look at the screen and the imaging too. And there was a lot of murmuring and pointing, and I’m on the bed and I’m just sick. And I, you know I kind of squeaked out of my voice do you think it’s cancer?
[00:04:02] And she said you have very concerning masses. And I cannot tell you that. All I can tell you is you have very concerning masses and need a biopsy. And I was like, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Okay. And I was like crying at this point and I was like, well, I’m leaving for Paris tomorrow, so I guess I’ll just have to get a biopsy when I’m back in a couple of weeks.
[00:04:31] And she said, I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. You’re not leaving this building without getting a biopsy and so I, it was hysterical and while they got the biopsy room ready, I was able to go out to the waiting room to talk to my husband because he’s been, you know, out there not allowed back in.
[00:04:50] And it was. Like, we just clung to each other and cried. And I, you know, I, it’s all the confirmation I needed, you know to tell me what was going on. And when I got into the biopsy room there was a new radiologist and so I figured I’d shoot my shot and I said, do you think it could be anything else?
[00:05:14] And she said, honey, you have cancer. And I was like, okay. Well here we go on this journey. So, you know, but if I have not advocated for myself, if I had not persisted and not taken no for an answer, you know, when my pathology came back, it shows that my cancer is really aggressive and it’s fast moving.
[00:05:37] And I’m at high risk for recurrence. Like the list goes on. If I had waited from February to May. I, my tumors were large enough that they were, they could almost have been considered stage three. If I had not caught it in March, if I had waited until May, I have no idea what I’d be against.
[00:05:59] Adam Walker: Man. Yeah, that would’ve been terrible.
[00:06:01] I’m, I mean, I’m so glad that you know, took the initiative to, to go get what you needed, right? I mean, that’s what you had to do.
[00:06:08] Clea Shearer: Yeah. Well, and I share that story all the time because I just really want people to understand that the medical system, even a good medical system, I mean, these are good doctors.
[00:06:18] I have great insurance, you know, but are just sometimes not designed for our immediate and serious needs. Yeah. So I, you know, just, it’s really important to take matters under control.
[00:06:31] Adam Walker: Yeah. And advocate. Advocate for yourself. We talk about that on the show all the time. You got to advocate for yourself, right?
[00:06:36] Now I know that you are a planner by trade and you’re thrown into this situation full of unknowns. Talk about that. How was that? How did you cope with that?
[00:06:50] Clea Shearer: Well, the first line of my book is if you’re a type of person who likes to plan things, cancer is not the disease for you. And I stand by that statement.
[00:07:00] It is not easy. You know, I tried to plan things in the early days. I really tried to be like, okay, here is my action plan. And, you know, once I talked to my oncologist, we were like, okay. We start chemo here. This many rounds take a break before starting this other chemo, this many rounds, onto radiation.
[00:07:24] Ring the bell. Okay. Like I and I know, and starting with a double mastectomy. Double mastectomy. So. And sometimes it would in a different diagnosis the surgery comes later. My surgery came first. Because they thought that I, they thought my cancer had not spread yet. And when they actually went in for my operation, I, it had spread to my lymph nodes.
[00:07:51] So it kicked me up into stage two diagnosis and whatnot. So the fact that that you know, everything changed kind of immediately, already prompted me to believe that like, okay this is going to be a wild ride. Like everything from the very first thing I had to experience was my double mastectomy, and I woke up nine hours later.
[00:08:17] Just to find out that I’m stage two, not stage one, that I would in fact need chemo, that radiation would mean that I couldn’t get my my reconstruction for a year following end of my radiation. So, you know, it was just like getting kicked in the face from this minute one and it’s really tough to deal with and I think, I don’t, I want to believe that I just…
[00:08:47] that I was able to like gracefully accept all of these changes and roadblocks and things that would continue to get in the way. Right. But I think that, I think you just are like so tired, you know, like you’re so like just beat down and you’re like, oh, okay. I guess it’s, I guess it’s another thing.
[00:09:08] I mean, like, even after I woke up after that operation, seven days later, I experienced necrosis of both breasts and had to get rushed in, in emergency surgery. Seven days after my first surgery. I was like, the hits keep coming. Like it’s not, you know, so. I just learned from the beginning that you just have to experience what’s in front of you on that day.
[00:09:33] Yeah. And it’s a really hard thing to plan. Now, I would supplementally do things like, you know, be very meticulous about researching products to use and, you know, packing my chemo bag with like, all the right things and comforts and all that. I mean, I did what I can. My mom always laughs that coming home from the hospital after my double mastectomy.
[00:09:55] That there were so many flowers. I’ve never seen so many flowers in my life, and I was like arranging them, like moving, like they weren’t like in the places I wanted, right? They weren’t lined up the way I want, and my mom had to be like, Clea, sit down. Sit down, you’re not supposed to be on your feet and moving things.
[00:10:14] Yeah. So, you know, again, part, that part of me snuck out as often as it possibly could, but it just, you know it was definitely everything about cancer for me at least and I imagine most people would agree is very humbling.
[00:10:28] Adam Walker: Yeah. But I mean, it sounds like you found the things that you could control and you to, to the degree that you could control those mo those minor things. And I would imagine that was at least marginally helpful in getting through it, was that..
[00:10:41] Clea Shearer: Yes, I, I said often, and I write about it in the book, that, you know, you have to control the controllables. Yeah. Like not most things you’re not going to be able to do anything about.
[00:10:52] So if there are things that can comfort you and make you feel a little bit less out of control, then do it. Lean in. Yeah. It, for me, it really helped.
[00:11:04] Adam Walker: That’s fantastic. I love that. Now I know you’ve been very open about your breast cancer experience and you’ve had your fair share of complications through the treatment.
[00:11:13] You’ve mentioned several so far. I mean, talk to us about some of those and how you’ve been able to sort of get through the mental and physical toll that’s taken on you.
[00:11:23] Clea Shearer: Well, it’s interesting because I had a different answer a couple of months ago. Okay. And within these last few months I’ve had
[00:11:32] a cluster of incredible setbacks, surgeries, disappointments. So I’m going to answer it in two different parts because it’s kind of different answers. For the longest time, I really have to say, I took it on the chin and I was like, you know what? I am the lucky one. Here I am cancer free. I really feel like I can get through this.
[00:12:03] I have a high pain threshold. Allegedly, I thought I was like such a delicate flower and like apparently I’m, you know, so I would like go in for major surgery and the next day, like go on a walk and like, you know, two days later fly to LA like I was okay. You know, I, yeah, it was very frustrating and it was always eating at me because it just, you know.
[00:12:31] I’ve had eight surgeries this year and four of them have been in the last two months. Wow. So, you know it’s been a year of a lot of setbacks and, you know I really try and stay super positive through all those experiences. because I do feel like I am lucky this, I am lucky. Like, let me keep this in perspective.
[00:12:54] Right. And and. And the most important thing, and this goes even for the last couple of months, my North Star in everything, whether it was going through chemo and being super sick, or you know, having another emergency surgery or an infection or whatever it may be. Or even just trying to have the confidence to, you know, I’ve had my right breasts now removed three separate times.
[00:13:23] So trying to have the confidence to. Be okay in my own skin and you know, not always like have to like wear a prosthetic or something like that and just own the body that I have. My North Star in every single one of those things is that I know that what I do if I experience bravery, whether again it’s how I get dressed or in the face of going in for another surgery, if I can express bravery.
[00:13:55] It will help someone else dramatically. I know that, yeah. People in my position were scared, were embarrassed. Were fearful. We sometimes experience a lot of shame around what our bodies look like, and if I can just be a poster child, if I can just be like, I am going to do it, so that you guys can be less afraid of what it looks like, of what it feels like then
[00:14:24] you know, to me that’s a real gift and I consider it a real privilege, you know to be able to do that for other people. And that’s why I talk about all of it, like the good, the bad, the very ugly. I just when I’m at a real low point, I think to myself, well, someone else out there is feeling the exact thing.
[00:14:47] So let share my experience. Let me open up about it and, you know, kind of, create, like demystify it, right? Like let’s talk about it. Let’s yeah. You don’t like the way you look today? I don’t like it either. Like I don’t like the way I feel right now. And like, that’s okay too.
[00:15:08] There’s no shame in feeling some body shame, you know? Right. Like if there, like all of it and. You know, you also can’t let people just categorically tell you, well, the most important thing, or it is the most important thing, but like the only thing that matters is that you’re cancer free.
[00:15:26] You’re still allowed to have feelings around it, you know, like that is the most important thing. And we’re also lucky, but it doesn’t mean it’s not a really hard road. And the last few months, I will say, in three and a half years of going through treatment. Including chemo. It might have been the darkest time for me.
[00:15:46] Adam Walker: Wow.
[00:15:46] Clea Shearer: And I could, I was in a really vicious cycle and everything that I would do, my body would reject, and I didn’t know how I was going to come out of it. So like I went in for reconstruction. And then the day later my, I had a hematoma and was just bleeding out and so I needed another breast surgery and a blood transfusion.
[00:16:17] And then the week, few weeks went by. My drains were still in. They weren’t doing what they were supposed to do. We had to pull them for risk of infection. And then my entire back, I’m not getting filled up like a waterbed. If you touched it, it would just ripple. I mean, it was crazy. Had to get in and have another breast surgery and drain that out.
[00:16:40] And then I put a different set of expanders in because my breasts weren’t allowing for implants, and then I was in Paris and literally sprung a leak and it was infected and it was awful. And I literally flew back to Nashville and went from the tarmac to the emergency room to get my breasts removed again, and drains put back again for the fourth time.
[00:17:07] And it’s just been. I, it was really dark. I it was, I, you know I talk about this a lot in terms of advocating for yourself, and I write about it in the book that you really don’t need to go through this alone. Like you need to speak up and talk to your doctor. And I called my doctor, not my surgeon, but I called my primary care and I was like, I am going through such a dark time.
[00:17:32] I, I need help. You know, like I, I’m not sleeping, I’m not eating. I really am like fearful. I’m scared that there’s, that this cycle won’t end, you know, like that. How we’re, you know I don’t know what to do. I’m free fall and so finally, you know, here I am, you know, breastless, but I feel healthy and I’m rehabilitating.
[00:17:58] But it was really hard. It was really dark, but like most recently, I had to go to a gala and I had picked out a dress when I had two boobs and, you know, and then I was only going to have one, and the dress is a V, it was low cut. And so I wore the dress anyway. I said, forget it. You know what, you can see my scars.
[00:18:20] And to be clear, it’s not just scars from a breast revision, it’s, I have an expander . I had an expander in. I just had a different flap surgery where you, they take muscle and skin from your back and tunnel it up here. So when they took the breast out, it’s like gnarled. Like it’s like skin, you know?
[00:18:41] Yeah. It’s not just like an incision.
[00:18:44] Adam Walker: Right.
[00:18:44] Clea Shearer: I have plenty of those. So, and you could see it. And I was, I almost burst into tears. I almost didn’t go. And then I was like, you know what? Hold your head up high and do this again. My North Star, other people have to deal with this too. And it’s really hard and it sucks.
[00:19:01] We all hate it. But you know what? We’re put in these difficult situations and if I can share my bravery, then, you know. I think it helps other people. So, so that’s my long-winded answer.
[00:19:17] Adam Walker: I love that mentality that you’re in it to help other people to help them through the darkness that you’re experiencing.
[00:19:23] And I think that’s beautiful.
[00:19:24] Clea Shearer: It gets me through the darkness. Yeah. To be honest, it makes me feel like everything is purposeful. Yeah. Like all the setbacks, all the complications that I have to endure all these things because in some way, like I’m meant to share them.
[00:19:40] Adam Walker: Yeah. Yeah. And it is purposeful for that very reason.
[00:19:43] Right? Yeah. So, so we have to talk about your new book. Congratulations on writing the new book. Cancer is Complicated. I know in the book you give tips to your readers sort of throughout the book. Do you have any sort of favorite tips or favorite guidance that you could share with us now?
[00:19:59] Clea Shearer: Well, I say I do have a lot of tips and I have a lot of you know, the, it goes through everything from how to do a breast self exam to what, to pack chemo essentials.
[00:20:12] You know, there are all sorts of tips in there. One of my biggest tips that I experienced don’t get COVID during radiation. That’s a big tip that sucked. And but I talk a lot about lessons that I learned. More so than just tips, more like just, wow, that was really surprising.
[00:20:34] And and there, you know, one of the things that I really wished someone would’ve told me is that during chemo, at least, and during treatment, I should say you’ll have way more good days than bad days. And I, that would’ve saved me a lot of. Emotional trauma going into treatment.
[00:21:01] Adam Walker: Right.
[00:21:02] Clea Shearer: You know, you have your bad days, you even have your really sick days, but more days are good than bad. You will not be bedridden, you know, I mean, unless there’s like something seriously wrong, of course, you know, I’m not saying that’s for everyone, but generally speaking. You will still have your quality of life.
[00:21:21] You will be able to go to dinner with your friends. You’ll be able to leave the house and go shopping, go to dinner. You know you’ll have really bad moments and you will have your sick moments, but you won’t lose your quality of life. And that to me was a huge lesson. And you know, when I go back and think about it, I’m like, okay, there are also, you know it was unexpected to find that there were so many special moments that came out of being sick and
[00:21:57] you know, I’m 43. I had never imagined I would live with my mother again. You know she moved into our house for the year that I was sick and I mean it, we had the most special, wonderful time. We would watch TV at night. Top Chef, my favorite and go on walks and, you know, do little shopping excursions around Nashville.
[00:22:26] Go out to lunch and you know, I also work like a crazy person who was like the first time that I was just home with my family. Right. Able to just be there every day, you know, with the kids. You know, there are just, you also learn a lot about your friendships, both kind of good and bad, to be honest. It’s, it can be a really beautiful time and like I said, it’s very hard fought, don’t get me wrong, but
[00:22:56] there, there are real glimmers. And you know I hold that like I cherish that, that time to be honest.
[00:23:06] Adam Walker: Yeah. That’s beautiful. I love that. Can you share the advice with our listeners that Hoda Kotb gave you? I think it’s beautiful and a hopeful sentiment.
[00:23:15] Clea Shearer: So Hoda was one of the very first people I told that I was diagnosed with breast cancer and, she went through her own breast cancer journey and I felt like comfortable to, to tell her, you know, at the beginning stages, it’s really hard to pick and choose who to tell because it feels just like a big secret. And the more you say it, the truer the words are and the more real it becomes. So I think you find yourself choosing your moments wisely and, so I went up to Hoda. I told her and she immediately took my hands, you know, into hers. That’s just the way she is. She’s just so warm and enveloping. And she said, I know so many people who have been through breast cancer and the thing we all have in common is that we’re all alive. And I was just like
[00:24:13] thank you. Thank you for just like cutting to the chase and removing that top line fear because I’m about to go through really hard things and I’m going to do it without the fear that I’m going to be dying, like I am going to eliminate that outcome from the options, and I’m going to focus on
[00:24:37] what I know will be extremely difficult. I’m guaranteeing myself that I will make it through and that I’m not going anywhere.
[00:24:47] Adam Walker: Yeah. That’s amazing. I mean, it’s in such a blessing for somebody just to cut through it like that. And just be honest and vulnerable in that way as well.
[00:24:59] Right. And that’s a, I mean, really a beautiful way to say it. Yeah. Wow. That’s amazing. Alright, so last question. Looking back is there anything you wish you would’ve known when you were first diagnosed?
[00:25:13] Clea Shearer: I definitely wish I would’ve known that I would have more good days than bad days.
[00:25:18] That’s for sure.
[00:25:19] Because the number one thing I was scared of was losing my quality of life.
[00:25:24] Adam Walker: Right.
[00:25:24] Clea Shearer: I am a very busy, fast-paced person. Travels all the time. I’m not a homebody, you know, like I it’s just not in my nature. I’m not a good patient. If I’m sick, I don’t stay in bed, you know, it’s like this is just, it’s very hard for me.
[00:25:41] Right? And so that is something that would’ve eased my fears and worries so much. So much.
[00:25:51] Adam Walker: Yeah. I think that what I really wish I would’ve known is honestly that I wish that I would’ve known that I would still have the capacity to laugh and feel happy and right. Have good times and do things and that eating and treatment wasn’t going
[00:26:15] Clea Shearer: to ruin my life. You know, I mean that, that to me is really what I wished I had known. I, in some ways, I mean, sure I could maybe go back in time and give myself some talking to about whether or not I want to explore reconstruction, but the truth is, I think that’s always been part of my story and I
[00:26:40] deeply want to achieve it. You know, it is hard and there are a lot of complications and I’m not done. We’re probably going to start reconstruction again in six months to a year, really give my body time to heal. But that is everyone’s personal choice. And so I don’t know that I would’ve done anything differently had I known what I was going to be up against.
[00:27:03] It just it’s a piece of my journey that’s important to me to correct. And I’ve just been through so much with it that I’m just like, I’m no quitter. You know, I’m going to, I’m going to achieve this. I’m, I’m going to get what I want in this.
[00:27:17] Adam Walker: Yeah.
[00:27:18] Clea Shearer: But yeah, I mean all the things you learn, I think you learn in real time.
[00:27:25] Like, I, you know, I, I didn’t know how fatigued I would be, right? I didn’t know that I would need more rest. I didn’t know that I would need to say no to people more, you know, all of those things. But I don’t, I didn’t mind learning the lesson at the time. I think really for me the biggest thing was I was terrified of just feeling sick all the time.
[00:27:46] Terrified of not being able to go anywhere or do anything. I will say a small word of caution if you’re feeling in the middle of treatment like Disneyland’s a good idea. I would cross that one off the list.
[00:28:03] Adam Walker: I feel like there’s some backstory There is that just a hunch? I was just feeling high on life and we went to California in between my ke two chemo breaks.
[00:28:13] Clea Shearer: Right. We went for a week in the summer. And I love Disneyland. My kids love Disneyland. And I was like, let’s do it. I’ve just this, let’s do it. Yeah. And I ended up in the emergency room, so yeah, it’s apparently my, one of the things that happens during treatment is your red blood cell count and your white blood cell count go way down.
[00:28:35] Yeah. And. Basically, essentially I just had no red blood cells working for me and needed an emergency blood transfusion. So yeah, but I mean it was pretty bad. It was pretty bad. Yeah. So, so that’s just a little word of caution, like, yes, you’ll be able to do things, but you know, maybe check in Yeah, a little bit.
[00:28:57] Like, but you know, like maybe don’t go crazy, you know? So yeah that’s what I would say.
[00:29:04] Adam Walker: That’s that’s a very fair point. And I do have to ask for my own reading list benefit where would I go to add your book to my reading list?
[00:29:14] Clea Shearer: Anywhere that books are sold. You know, I love that you can do any local bookstore up to target.
[00:29:22] Up to Amazon, up to anything. And it’s available in hardcover Kindle and audiobooks. And I did do the audiobook myself.
[00:29:32] Adam Walker: You did? I did. Oh, I love it when authors do their own audiobook. Okay. All right. That’s exciting. All right.
[00:29:39] Clea Shearer: Audio was actually, it was very cathartic to do. Yeah. And the thing that was most exciting to me is, you know, I wrote the book just the same way that I’m talking to you.
[00:29:47] Right. Like it’s, you know I didn’t. Write it to be like a textbook. I wrote it just in my own voice. Yeah. And reading it was so validated that I did write it in my own voice. That’s because it was just like talking, you know? That’s right. Like it, I didn’t, it didn’t feel awkward to say the words, like it just, it felt…
[00:30:07] it read out loud exactly the way I wanted it to. So
[00:30:11] Adam Walker: I love that. Yeah. That’s so great. Well, Clea, you have been an amazing guest. I’ve learned a lot just talking to you, and I appreciate the inspiration that you bring to the world around you and to our audience for this show. You know, thank you so much for joining us on the show.
[00:30:24] I have to have you back again sometime.
[00:30:25] Clea Shearer: Thank you. It was fun.
[00:30:32] Adam Walker: Thanks for listening to Real Pink, a weekly podcast by Susan G Komen. For more episodes, visit real pink.Komen.org. And for more on breast cancer, visit Komen.org. Make sure to check out at Susan G Komen on social media. I’m your host, Adam. You can find me on Twitter at AJ Walker or on my blog adam j walker.com.