[00:00:00] Adam Walker: From Susan G Komen, this is Real Pink, a podcast exploring real stories, struggles, and triumphs related to breast cancer. We’re taking the conversation from the doctor’s office to your living room.
This is Real Talk, a podcast conversation where we’re digging deep into breast cancer and the reality patients and survivors face every day. We’re talking openly and honestly about just how difficult breast cancer can be, from being diagnosed to selecting the right treatment plan, to living day to day with metastatic breast cancer and life after treatment ends.
In today’s episode, we’re talking about getting a second opinion and why it’s so important when selecting your treatment plan. Our guests today, Shilo Goodman and Eve Laidacker, both had to speak up and tell their doctors they didn’t agree with their medical advice and advocate for what they thought was best for themselves.
Ladies, there’s so much going on at the time of the diagnosis and you both knew the advice you were given wasn’t right. That had to cause even more frustration and confusion. And I appreciate you being here today to share your stories and tell listeners why it’s so important to get medical advice from another doctor.
So Eve, let’s start with you. Share your story, your breast cancer story. And when you finish, Shilo, we’d love to hear your story as well.
[00:01:19] Eve Laidacker: I was a gal who never missed a mammogram from the time I was 39 years old. So when I felt a lump on the right side in April of 2020, I immediately called my primary care physician and I let her know and she said, come on in, we’ll see you. And I left there with a diagnosis of mastitis and a two week antibiotic. Knew walking out the door, that something didn’t feel right. Two weeks later, the antibiotic was completed, the lump seemed even larger. I felt like underneath my arm was a little tight and I called my doctor’s office and they said, I think something’s up.
And, she said, let’s wait until your mammogram in July. And they said, that’s three months away. Called every day for two weeks before they finally graded a referral for a mammogram. As soon as they did the mammogram, they came in and they said, we’re doing an ultrasound. And then they came in and said, we’re seeing aggressive disease.
And I said, you mean breast cancer? And they said, yes. That was May. I’m sorry. That was June. Almost three months later. And, when they said that to me, I knew that I had to take some steps and it had to be fast. And, I’ve worked in the healthcare field for, as a, teacher for quite a while.
So I knew that I needed to make some phone calls and, when she, when I said to them, okay, they said to me, I’m sorry, they said to me, you need a biopsy and you need it fast. I said, okay. Okay. They got me in within 10 days, I think, of a biopsy. It was actually on my birthday. And, the young lady, the ultrasound technician was incredible.
In fact, she held on to me, after the biopsy and I didn’t understand why. And here she was down the, hall trying to make, an appointment with the cancer center, right across the street for me. So, I called my primary care physician again and I said, Hey, we did a biopsy. She did not put that referral.
And I made that phone call myself to get the biopsy because she just was putting me off. She was away and then there was no one covering her patients anyway. This young lady probably saved my life and I got in touch with, the cancer center and I was starting chemotherapy within two weeks of that biopsy.
Actually, it was 12 days, simply because the diagnosis and the ultrasound showed, already in the, that the cancer had spread into the lymph nodes and, had I sat and waited, had I not called every day to get that ultrasound, the, first, the mammogram and then the ultrasound, had I waited, to, get the appointment for the biopsy when she put the referral in.
I think my outcome would have been very different. They also put me off. I said to them, I said, I’m being told by the radiologist that I need a surgical oncologist and a medical oncologist. And they said, let’s wait until we have some more results. And I was, I just, at that point I was done.
I said, I’m not waiting. So I called a very good friend of mine. Retired breast surgeon, close to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And I said, what do I do? And he said, this is what you do. He listed it out for me. We talked about it. I made phone calls myself. Even said to the one office, I said, listen, I don’t have a referral for my primary care physician, if at whatever it costs, I’m I’ll figure that out.
Just knew I couldn’t wait. And, also, I, along this path, I met some incredible physicians and incredible, healthcare professionals, and several of them were referring me to other physicians. In other words, they, the one said to me, she said, you know what? I just think that this is not the place for you with your diagnosis.
I would love to get you to Pittsburgh. And that’s what happened. And I ended up in Pittsburgh with phenomenal surgeons, and I’m still working with some of
them right now and I just knew in my heart and in my gut that I couldn’t wait. So the fact that, and I did feel a little bit guilty.
At one point with the, with my primary care physician, I liked her for a couple of years, but I did call that office and I let them know. And I said to them, please don’t let this happen to anyone else. Please listen to your patients. So that’s the story.
[00:05:56] Shilo Goodman: I’ve had cancer twice. The first time I was diagnosed, had just turned 40 and it was 2015 and I hugged my, it was a good Friday and I hugged my son from the side and I felt a knot.
When I hugged him, I thought, it felt like just a weird thought. I said that Monday, I called and got in pretty quickly and I did my first mammogram, because I had just turned 40, so I hadn’t had my mammogram yet, and I did my first mammogram and did biopsies and ultrasounds and, I did have, stage one cancer.
It was, ERPR positive, HER2 negative, and, so all I really needed, I had a, they wanted me to do a lumpectomy radiation, and I just really felt strongly that I needed double mastectomy. I just really felt like this. I want to go strong. I wanted to fight a head on. And so the people in my town, they really suggested a lumpectomy.
And so I went to Birmingham, which is about 2 hours away from here and I went to the breast care center there and, didn’t tell her anything what I wanted. I just wanted to hear what she said and she said with my age that she would definitely recommend my sex. I said, I gave me a piece. That’s what I didn’t tell her what I wanted, but gave me a piece when she said that because I knew that’s what I wanted to do.
So I did do that and a lot of people were like, oh, that’s too aggressive. I just, I knew that’s what I felt personally that I needed. And then so that was in 2015. And then, so I started after the double mastectomy and all of that, I started, Tamoxifen. And I had to take it for 10 years and I was on year eight of Tamoxifen.
And, I was keeping up all my appointments, all my schedules. I was going every day. Months ago, I was supposed to and taking the medicine like I was supposed to. And I went in to get my markers done, blood marker tests. And it always been like seven, nine, eight, seven. That February had been seven and then in August, it was 13, whatever it was.
And I was like, that’s high. It’s just no, it’s not high. 2000 below is normal. And I said, that’s not normal. And they’re like, It’s normal. It’s fine. So I wait, I called back a few days later. I was like, Oh, sure. That just doesn’t sound right to me. I just don’t like the way that it sounds. I almost have doubled since I’ve been married.
It’s always been like 7, 9, right? And, so then I called people in Birmingham back and she wanted to see me again. And she just hit it head on. It was cancer. It had come back. They all we should write a medical journal about you. It’s so unusual because I was on my year 8 of Tamoxifen. I’m like, I was year 10.
I was almost done. And how it all must say to me and beyond the cancer blocker and the hormone blocker and for it to come back, it was just unheard of. And they couldn’t believe it. So I think that’s why the people in my town did take it as seriously. So I thought that they needed to was because it was.
Yeah. It’s almost impossible. Like they were like this, you can’t be coming back, whatever. And so I just didn’t really, I’m so thankful that I went with my gut. And that’s what I just tell all my friends. Just listen to your guys, listen to yourself, be your own advocate, ask questions, because if I hadn’t have that would have gone on.
And I don’t know how long that would go on, but my cancer again, and it said the 2nd time I did have 33 rounds of radiation and I had a complete hysterectomy, and then I started back on aromacin. I took a few first and didn’t work for me, but I’m on aromacin now for 10 years, so I’ve started all over, going back to my every 3 month visits, taking a different inhibitor now for my hormones.
And it’s just, it’s really just, it’s just so important to ask questions and not be afraid to hurt somebody’s feelings, which I am that type of person. I don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings, but it came to my own help. And I had to realize that I had to speak up for myself and ask questions and not be afraid to hurt feelings, basically.
[00:10:05] Eve Laidacker: That was one of the things that concerned me was, this is a primary care physician. She’s got so much more education than I do. And, am I going to upset her? When I receive my diagnosis, I’m actually the opposite. ERPR negative, HER2 positive. And, when I was speaking with my friend in Philadelphia, he’s like Eve, you don’t have a lot of time. You are stage three and it’s in the lymph nodes. And that was always in the back of my mind. Don’t wait that three to four to five weeks to get that next appointment. Don’t wait until the surgical oncologist can get you into their schedule. Advocate, get
on the phone. I called my primary care physician probably every day for almost two weeks just to get the ultrasound and the mammogram.
[00:10:54] Shilo Goodman: That’s a shame, that you had that idea. So I asked mine that day and then I called back. And I was just like, I just, I couldn’t let myself have ease with the fact that I had jumped almost double, even though all the odds were against having cancer. just knew I did.
And I think a lot of times you have that, you just have that feeling, your body-
[00:11:18] Eve Laidacker: And one of the things that’s exactly right. We know our bodies. One of the things that was in my mind was, you know what, if this was their sister, what would they be doing? If this was their mom, would they be telling them, Oh, we’re going to see you in two weeks or let’s get a, let’s wait until your next mammogram. And I was someone who never missed a mammogram. My July, 2019 mammogram was completely clear and three different radiologists experts have looked at it. They can’t find a thing on it.
So, if something has changed dramatically, like that jump in your numbers, Look at it. Think about it. One of the things that they tried to keep me from doing because it’s what I do, was Google information. And I agree, you can just have way too much coming at you and all these different things.
But the fact that your numbers doubled, the fact that, this lump was significant, just made me realize, you know what, I have to, if it were my mom, I would be going after it. It’s me. So I couldn’t worry about being self centered. I couldn’t worry about their feelings because their feelings don’t matter if I’m not around, so, yeah.
[00:12:33] Shilo Goodman: And everybody was like, don’t be Googling that, but I had to, too, because that’s how I like information and then you have to read through it and figure out you can’t read everything and believe it. But to me, I felt so much more empowered by having knowledge. You I just felt like I had to keep reading about it.
I would get all my reports, so I would read through them and I would, if I think I didn’t understand it all, I would just Google it and type that word in there. I just felt like it was, because the doctors are busy and they’re in a hurry and they don’t have time. A lot of times when you get there you don’t remember your questions anyway.
You can’t write them down and I just feel like you just get nervous. I needed to know a lot of stuff going in, like I needed to know a lot of my information going
in before I had to ask them questions that took up my time before the big stuff, so I just think that, I think that Google is a great friend personally, because I think it helped me out tremendously.
[00:13:26] Eve Laidacker: And Shilo, I’m hearing you say that when you got to Birmingham, you almost felt, relief.
When I spoke on the phone, I hadn’t even met her yet. Didn’t even have an appointment because they wouldn’t put in the referral for me. The medical oncologist, for some reason I felt this tremendous relief.
She said things that made me think, you know what, this is the right person. She said, I’m getting you a chair in chemotherapy because we don’t have time to wait. It was almost this wave of, wow, okay. This person is helping me. As opposed to me having to do all the work, it’s a huge relief.
It’s a huge, what else to call it?
[00:14:07] Shilo Goodman: I agree because when he got back in the car, my husband was with me. They got back in the car and I was like, I’m set. So I want to do, I feel immediately this, oh, I’m in the right place. It’s where I’d like to be. I liked the team, I liked the doctors, I liked the staff, I felt really good about it, and of course I mean I like my people here too, but I wanted to go somewhere that only did breast cancer.
I didn’t want somebody to operate on my knee one day, maybe the next day, I wanted it to be just, specialized in that knowledge.
[00:14:37] Eve Laidacker: And also people who were reacting to what you were saying proactively, not saying, Oh, it’s, okay. It only doubled and numbers only doubled. Birmingham wanted to see you right away.
When we started working on my treatment, I said to my, she was very clear about what we had to do and there was no, wavering in her plan, in her voice, nothing. She’s you’re going to have chemotherapy. And it’s going to be a long haul.
You’re going to have as much radiation as we can give you. It was, interesting. So she didn’t hesitate once. And that to me was like action. I needed action. I needed somebody to hear what I was saying. I needed somebody to go, you know what, we can beat this. Because one of the questions, and I don’t know if this happened to you, but when the radiologist came in and he told me aggressive, invasive, my first question was, can I survive this?
And he said, some do. And I was like, some? He’s most do. I said, okay, then I’m in that category.
[00:15:38] Shilo Goodman: So, yeah. How are you now? Are you good?
[00:15:42] Eve Laidacker: I am. If I can get to September of this year, I believe they consider me cancer free. Yes. Yes. That’s what I’m saying. Wonderful.
Yes. and there’s the other side of it too, and, this is the hardest part and it’s, the whole medical insurance and all of that.
Like I said, to the one office, I said, listen, just get me the appointment. I’ll pay whatever. I’ll deal with that when I have to. But if I can’t, if I, if I can’t get to the point of surviving, then why do we even, why are we even here? Why are we having this conversation?
So, getting those appointments myself, which I know, some people can, some people can’t, but calling every day, making sure I got the appointment and the, getting the biopsy because she wanted to wait until, I forget what she wanted to wait for with the biopsy. Oh, I’m sorry. She didn’t want to wait.
She was out of town and I even said to the person answering the phone, isn’t someone covering her patients? And they said, she’ll be back in 10 days. I’m like, I don’t think we can meet. And made the biopsy appointment myself. So, just, I think you have to speak up. I think you have to ask.
Like you said, I think you have to find information that, that doesn’t overwhelm you, that makes sense to you, because if you don’t, they’re like you said, they’re busy people. They’re seeing so many other patients and they’re going home at night. So, I think in order to survive diagnosis or survive the disease, you have to, and the, mental mindset is tremendous.
It means everything in my opinion. Yes. And creating those relationships with your physicians was important to me too. I love my oncologists. I love my surgeons in Pittsburgh. They’re kind and they’re considerate. And they listen to me and they spend hours with me. And I know that’s terrible because there’s probably patients waiting for them, but they, my surgeon-
[00:17:38] Shilo Goodman: They make you feel important and they want to take you seriously and they want to make you feel important and take that time with you. Because then that’s what you drove there for.
[00:17:48] Eve Laidacker: Yes. And that’s what we’re, that’s what we were fighting for. Like someone to hear us because if they’re not listening and like you, you said it again, they’re seeing so many patients. If they’re not listening, then, I think you have to find someone who is.
Who’s hearing what you’re saying, not just repeating back to you. Yes. I see your diagnosis. Here we go. No. What do you want? What’s important for You what does this mean for your lifestyle, for your life, for your family, whatever? So that was important to me too.
[00:18:21] Shilo Goodman: Like you said, I liked how my surgeon Birmingham just took charge.
I liked that. She was like, this is what I would do. The age that you are, this is what you need to be doing. I like that. She just didn’t like, back and forth. She just gave me what she thought she didn’t. She just told me, this is what she should do. The agents you are, this is supportive.
Like she can send my tissue off for a memo print. And she was so detailed. She made sure she read all these tests on it to see my, how the chances of chemo effects or how she just did so much, so much research on my tissue that I felt so, I felt very confident with my decision.
I don’t even, and then that force for it to come back was just unheard of, but that would, it came back this past year. So I just finished radiation this last January, I finished radiation.
[00:19:18] Eve Laidacker: You make a great point. There’s the other thing, every human body is different.
Everyone’s going to react differently. Everyone’s cancer is going to be different. Everyone’s diagnosis and treatment could be different. And the one thing that was interesting to me was a lot of my friends were coming and saying, oh, so and so did this and so did this. I said, great.
However, I’m going to, I’m going to listen to the experts that I’m starting to feel comfortable with, and, I have to do it my way, like it has to be what works for me, and what they’re suggesting for me, one of the questions that they asked us
was, to the person listening, who is afraid to speak up, what advice can you give them to help them do what’s best for themselves?
The one thing that I’m going to say is put yourself first because the physicians are busy. the technology, the, the ultrasound techs and the radiation techs, they see a lot of people, you’re just a name and a face to them. Not that they’re not, caring and kind, but again, they’re, just, going, getting their work done.
Don’t be afraid if you’re important to someone, or even, if you love yourself, don’t be afraid, play something.
[00:20:30] Shilo Goodman: Actually had a scare this past, about a month ago now; I found three knots in my arm on the same side. And of course you have had this, everything makes you nervous, And so I called on one of my doctors and I didn’t get it right away.
So I called another one. It was like the best place. So I called my radiation oncologist and they got me in immediately. And I was like, Oh my God. I said, do you feel these three knots? He said, I feel one of them. He said, but does it matter if I feel them? He said, if you feel them, it’s all I need to know.
And he sent me for an ultrasound immediately that same day, because he said, your body, and if you feel something that’s different, I trust you on that. And I loved that. And they felt, I felt very good that he didn’t have to feel every knot that I felt, as long as he knew that I felt them. And I went and I checked out and it was nothing.
And thankfully I was afraid it might be fluid or a tumor. And it was neither. And, And when I went for the ultrasound, the girl said, spot her name on the list. And I was like, I’ve got her, because we’ve been through it so many times together that she’s I want her, so there’s like relationships that you say are so important because they see your name.
I know that, but you’re not just, but you’re serious about something and they all take care of you. No, it’s, it says a lot.
[00:21:43] Eve Laidacker: And you make a good point. we live with our body every day. They only see it once every few months. Just like the knots. Again, and I agree with you too, if you have to keep looking for experts to help you and you find one that says, I don’t need to feel my trust you.
That’s what I needed. And I found it pretty quick. Thank goodness. Because now if something comes up, I have quite a lot of headaches in the last six
months of my, I let my oncologist know me. She’s you’re going for an ultrasound today. I’m like, what? What? Cat scan. She’s like, can you get there today?
I’m like, I guess so. She didn’t even see me. So finding those people is so important and really, the more you, and I don’t know about anyone else, but the more that I felt like I had some control, in the decisions and the phone calls and all that, I think the, more I felt like this is my battle and I’m winning, I was not going to lose this battle.
[00:22:43] Shilo Goodman: And it also puts you at ease when you’re not having to fight. Other people to you just fighting the disease and not people to it puts you at ease because you don’t have to constantly be second guessing yourself or, worry about hurts my feelings as long as you just know that we’re a team, we’re this together, you feel good about it.
[00:23:02] Eve Laidacker: And, one of the things that I know that-
some, and I hate to say women, but we are, we’re the caregivers, we’re the, the little kinder people, sorry, gents. But, don’t know that I really sat down and chose my words. I was just very clear about what I needed and what I wanted. Because he’s asking, do you ever think about, I’m sorry, what advice can you give them, what’s best for themselves?
Don’t know that we have to be overly kind. I don’t know that we have to really be careful of how we’re saying it to them. No, this is what I need. How can you make that happen? That’s what I think is important. Don’t worry about hurting their feelings. Don’t worry about how it sounds because you don’t have that kind of that time and you don’t have those options.
[00:23:56] Shilo Goodman: And also, you have to just get to where you have a peace about, I knew that I wanted double masectomy, and everybody thought I was being too aggressive. I just knew I had done so much reading in that short, those few days. I had done so much reading about recurrence, and I just didn’t want to fight that, even though I did anyway, but I feel like it was the right decision. I just really read a lot, constantly reading, and I just knew I wanted to know what it said to me, but I didn’t want to say that. I wanted to hear someone else say it. So I would know that I was right. I wanted someone to tell me why.
And so, and she did, she didn’t hesitate. She was like, I don’t even know why you’re thinking about this. So that, that gave me the peace that I wanted, because just wanted, I wanted to know what I need to do, why I need to do it,and have a reason to talk about it. You know what I’m saying? Like I didn’t want to be second guessing myself or worried that I made the wrong decision.
I wanted to know exactly why I needed to do it and she gave me that, she gave me the reasons why it was important that we headed to that. I think that helps too, when you just have knowledge and you can back it up and, talking about your decisions, agreed.
[00:25:00] Eve Laidacker: And the funny, it’s funny, Shilo, think about it.
Who wants a double mastectomy? It’s not fun. Why would I even want to think about it? And then, but the fact is if that’s what you needed in order to move forward and, win your battle, then, there should not have been any questions.
[00:25:22] Shilo Goodman: Because thankfully I did that because when it turned out with the mammogram, with the tissues and all, I didn’t even need radiation the first time anyway.
I didn’t need radiation. So if I had done it in the end, I might not have done it when I didn’t need it, second time. You know what I mean? So I just felt I ju,st think that you should get somewhere that you feel comfortable with and make the right decisions that you feel that you need deep down and have peace about it. And don’t be afraid to ask for what you think that you need.
[00:25:51] Eve Laidacker: Agreed. Agreed. One of the, another one of the questions that they, proposed was, where do you think you’d be, today if you didn’t get a second opinion? I think I said it earlier. I don’t know that I would be here, according to a couple of my physicians,
was aggressive and it was, a 10 month period where there was a, I believe it was a 12 centimeter mass. So, it was moving and it was in the lymph nodes and have I not spoken up? I think that, and I have a big family. I think that, they, we would have been at a point where, no one wants to be.
So, I, feel good about it. I’m very proud for speaking up for myself. I’ve talked with a lot of women since then I’ve volunteered, I’ve done the walks and the fundraisers and all of that, and I don’t need to tell my story as much. I just want people to know that you have choices and you have options and you have to go after what you feel is going to work for you and everyone’s going to be different.
[00:26:54] Shilo Goodman: I was excited when I learned this was about second opinions that they find that is just something that is so important to not just go
with the person that you hear if you don’t have, if you can tell first things you hear and you’re fine with it, that’s fine, but I didn’t have peace first thing that I heard either time, especially the second time, especially when I knew those numbers don’t like that.
I was just like, because it’s normal. Okay. That’s not mine. You know what I mean? So I never had that for me. They might always. The highest then so far to double. That’s not my normal, because you can’t put everybody in class. Like normal for everybody doesn’t exist. So you can’t just say that’s normal, and so I think that’s the one that was really eye opening for me was that they were just like, Oh, the truth happened while I was normal. That is it, if it doubled in one, in six months, it doubled. That’s not normal.
[00:27:46] Eve Laidacker: You make a good point, but that’s not normal for you. That’s a great point.
And that’s a little, that’s a red flag. Just like this thing about mastitis and sending me home with the antibiotic. I’m like, I don’t know. That was like a little beacon going, really? Like it just didn’t feel right. It didn’t sound right.
[00:28:05] Adam Walker: Ladies, this has been, really interesting to listen to.
And I’m, really glad you both took charge of your stories, in a very authoritative way. It’s been really interesting to listen through. I’m curious, why do you think people are hesitant to speak up, and what do you want them to know about being an advocate for themselves?
[00:28:31] Eve Laidacker: I think they’re hesitant because they’re not the experts. I think they’re hesitant because they trust their physicians, that physicians have all this experience. I think, and I will say part of it is, and it was in the back of my mind, is, Oh, this can’t happen to me. I think that could be part of it too.
So you have to really, take all of that and, weed it out and then decide where do I go?
[00:28:58] Shilo Goodman: And I think a lot of it is you don’t want to be nice. You don’t want to be like, go against what they’re saying. If they’re the expert, I’m thinking, they went to college for this and I know, But I think that you still have to just listen to yourself and have, I just, I prayed a lot about it and I just had to have a piece. In that position, and I just think that’s just have a peace about it.
[00:29:24] Adam Walker: Yeah, that’s right. It’s tough, it really is like advocating for yourself like in general is a difficult thing and but I think knowing the stakes right and you both knew the stakes based on your stories like knowing the stakes, you have to be willing to overcome that discomfort that willingness to, maybe offend and advocate for yourself.
So, other than I think the obvious answer to this question is probably that you’re in a good place with your health at this moment. So I’m going to, I’m going to preface that. But the question I want to ask is what’s been the greatest benefit to taking charge of your treatment and your care. Like I said, aside from better health outcomes, which I think is true for both of you, what’s been another great benefit for you?
[00:30:07] Eve Laidacker: Honestly, I think knowing what was coming, sadly enough. Yeah, my oncologist, she didn’t pull any punches. I’ll never forget the one surgeon said to me, listen, we’re going to take you to the very edge of the cliff. You won’t fall over because then we’re going to pull you back. I’ll never forget her saying that to me.
I’m like, what’s the cliff? It doesn’t sound fun, but I think hearing that early and then thinking, okay, this is going to be a battle and it’s going to be a little bit of uphill battle. So let’s get going and let’s get it done. But that’s my personality too. So, yeah.
[00:30:48] Shilo Goodman: I liked the knowledge.
I feel like just the knowledge and I’ve had an unbelievably amount of friends who have had breast cancer after me. And I’ve been able to, it’s really insane how many people I’ve had that I know they’re in my circle, whatever, that have had breast cancer. And so I’ve been able to share my story with them, and just give them, let them know that they can be their own advocate and speak up for themselves and not be afraid to go against what someone else is saying.
[00:31:20] Eve Laidacker: Right. And also give them hope. Hope was important to me.
[00:31:23] Shilo Goodman: It is.
[00:31:24] Adam Walker: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. You both, I think have given some hope, today.
I really, feel empowered, just by listening to your stories. And I know that a lot of our audience will as well. Eve, Shilo, thank you so much for being real, for being vulnerable and for sharing your stories with us today.
[00:31:46] Shilo Goodman: Thank you for having us.
[00:31:48] Eve Laidacker: Thanks for having us.
[00:31:52] Adam Walker: Thanks for listening to Real Pink, a weekly podcast by Susan G Komen. For more episodes, visit realpink.komen.org. For more on breast cancer, visit komen.org. Make sure to check out @SusanGKomen on social media. I’m your host, Adam. You can find me on Twitter @AJWalker or on my blog, adamjwalker.com.